Interview with Francisco Piñon Carvajal, adopted son of General Francisco Villa, conducted in Cd. Chihuahua, Mexico, on October 20, 1976, by Dr. Ruben Osorio:PAGE TWO
Dr. Osorio: General Villa treated the reporters from El Universal very well, something that Sr. Hernández Llergo surprisingly admitted, and it would be very interesting to know what sort of relations General Villa had with General Obregón, President of the Republic, during the times that the reporters arrived on visits to the hacienda, whom he kept in his own house for seven days.
Sr. Piñon: According to the private correspondence of General Villa that I keep in my possession, the relations between he and President Obregón were excellent during the times when the reporters from El Universal would arrive on visits, whom he treated very well, which is something that I can attest to because I saw it myself. On the other hand, in the correspondence there exists a copy of a letter that the general sent to General Obregón dated the 24th of May, 1922, or six days before the arrival of the reporters in Canutillo, and in it he expressed the sorrow it caused him the way that in a period of national reconstruction in which all Mexicans should be cooperating with the government, a news article was published with bad intentions in El Heraldo de Durango, which he sent a cut out copy, an article which headlined: “Villa will place in coffins any spies that President Obregón sends.” I repeat to you that the relations with President Obregón were very good, and I keep other letters of General Villa which testify to this.
Dr. Osorio: Was General Villa careless with his arms?
Sr. Piñon: No, he was not careless. With respect to the reporters, it seems that he actually liked them, and although he trusted them, the general was very careful being that they were people whom he hardly knew, it is obvious that he was not about to place at the disposition of Sr. Hernández Llergo a saddle with an ammunition bag on one side and a showy 45 pistol on the other such as this report claims. With regards to the arms, he never left them where children could reach them, and it is therefor absurd that in the bedroom where they stayed, and where they slept, along with his sons Agustín and Octavio, Samuel, the son of General Trinidad Rodríguez, and Ramon, the son of Tomas Urbina, that there hung on the wall a showy 30-30 carbine with three cartridge belts complete with cartridges, this is completely untrue. The general had his own personal arms stored in his bedroom, among them two Thompson submachine guns which had been kindly given to him by General Obregón and I had another in my room. For certain these arms were never used.
Dr. Osorio: In this report it was mentioned several times that he had a strange look, penetrating and scary, and General Villa was described as having bloodshot eyes. Did you note anything strange in the look of the general? Did he have bloodshot eyes?
Sr. Piñon: This is also untrue because he had a completely normal look. Although he did not know these reporters, they were introduced in Parral by Colonel Felix Lara with whom the general got along very well, such that he had no reason to look at them any such hostile expression such as they described. What would be the reason for showing them a severe attitude or such a scary expression? Just because they were reporters? That is ridiculous; in the first place because he had no adverse feelings against newspapermen, in the second place because the general was surrounded by the men of his guard and these young men accompanied a well known person, they were not armed, they had no indication of any danger. Apart from that, we all change our expression in a contrary moment, I don't think there is anyone who does not change his expression when they become angry and General Villa was no exception. When he conversed in an ordinary manner he did so in a totally natural way and his expression was normal, not aggressive, many times I observed him so. On a few occasions when he was seriously angered for some reason his expression did change, and his eyes expressed irritation momentarily, but aside from these occasions he look was normal. The description that was made by Sr. Hernández Llergo about the general’s eyes being constantly bloodshot is completely false. Now living in Canutillo after the Revolution his character changed quite a bit; although very energetic he was very serene and he did not become disgusted very easily. I have already told you that he received a lot of visitors, some went to deal with personal matters or with business, others to find work or some economic assistance, others to borrow money and others simply to greet him or to meet him. His fame had spread beyond the borders of Mexico and in Canutillo he constantly received testimony of that. I remember well that having seen people there from all parts of the republic and also from various foreign countries; I saw people from France, Spain, Cuba, the United States, who arrived to greet him, especially from this last country since he had a lot of American friends. The general was not mean, he received everyone cordially; I believe that no one went away scorned from Canutillo.
Dr. Osorio: During the Revolution the general was wounded in his leg. Can you tell me if he was left badly affected from this wound and if he limped as described in the report?
Sr. Piñon: Definitely he was wounded in a knee fighting against the carrancista forces on his return from the attack in Columbus in 1916; he was taken to a cave situated near San Francisco de Borja where he hid with the aid of only two of his men, he eluded the tenacious pursuit of the Americans and the carrancistas for several months. For some time he had to use crutches to walk, but he was completely healed and by the time he was living in Canutillo he walked normally. It is untrue that he limped. It is not true that he limped and not only that but he preserved his agility even though he gained weight, and I remember that the bridle broke on one of his horses named El Chilicote and it spit the bit. As it is well known, he was an excellent horseman and he ended up dominating the horse without being hurt himself in any way.
Dr. Osorio: During the days that the reporters were there in Canutillo, on two occasions the general was unable to tend to them because he was sick in bed. They even related that when they entered his bedroom to bid farewell, they found him seated on a couch with the genuine face of a sick man, languishing, pale, speaking laboriously and coughing constantly. Can you tell me if the general was sickly?
Sr. Piñon: I can tell you with absolute certainly that the general enjoyed excellent health and that he had a vary durable constitution, of iron. It was natural that it were thus because in most of his campaigns that he carried out during the Revolution he did so on horseback and he was exposed to the inclemencies of the extreme climate of the north of the republic. According to Sr. Hernández Llergo the general not only stayed in bed victim of a bad cold but that he had a bandaged hand and shook his hand with little force. This is false, the general shook hands gripping ones hand normally such as the people of the north do. Apart from that, my bedroom was next to his and I never noticed one time that he remained in bed, neither do I remember him to have hurt his hand. From what I know, the only thing I know he suffered from during the Revolution was a chronic runny nose, and I have the glass syringe with which he washed his nasal passages and I have shown that to you. As far as the rest I never knew him to have suffered anything.
Dr. Osorio: Did the general smoke or drink?
Sr. Piñon: I think that what helped the general greatly in conserving his health is the fact that he did not drink or smoke. It is true what is said in the report, that there existed in Canutillo a dry state since he prohibited the sale of alcoholic beverages. He once spoke to be about that, he told me that he considered alcoholism to be one of the greatest national disgraces and that, for this reason, he did not want anyone selling any alcohol to his workers. I remember on one occasion, a clandestine vendor of sotol sold some bottles of this drink to his workers; there was not lacking whom might inform the general, who sent some soldiers from his guard to apprehend him. When he had him in the hacienda, together with the workers and before them he lectured very severely to that individual telling him that, knowing that it was prohibited, he had sold sotol knowing perfectly well the damage that this caused to the workers and that for this reason he didn't want to ever see him again in Canutillo; and next he ordered the soldiers of his squad to give him a good lashing. No one again sold sotol or alcohol in Canutillo. Curiously, during the Revolution, the General Villa carried with him a bottle of sotol with a medicinal herb called chuchupaste which is used by the Tarahumara Indians for stomach pains, and in Canutillo, one night he woke me so that we could go look for the blacksmith so that he could pull a tooth that he had under a gold crown because it hurt him a lot. This we did, the blacksmith pulled the tooth with his pliers, and the general went and slept very peacefully, I keep the fragments of the tooth together with the gold crown, and I have also shown you that. I have the impression that for some reason they had the intention of giving the impression of General Villa in the report as a sick person, wasting away prematurely and this is not true. When he was assassinated he was forty five years and forty five days old, he enjoyed good health, he was strong and in complete command of his senses.
All rights reserved by Dr. Ruben Osorio Zuniga. Prior written permission to republish in part or in whole is required except for excerpts of one sentence or less.
Translation by E. Bryant Holman, Ojinaga, Chihuahua
To contact Dr. Osorio rubenosorio@ojinaga.com
