M- No, no, listen. But if this is to say that what they do so that humanity loses control, to "discontrol" humanity. In some marriages there exists this wherein the just fight and fight, without any reason why, but if they do them a "little caress" (an expression meaning a witch's spell), a mischief - this is where you come to have meditated, and believe only in God. But those don't believe in God, those who do those things. They don't believe.

H- Do you believe that, for example, many people, for having had some traumas when they were children and really never could recover from them, for this reason they have problems like psychological "shock" because of these traumas - and that this is what they try to do with psychoanalysis, to take these things away?

M- No.

H- What do you think of this?

M- Well, look - in these cases what happens is that some persons have their special gift but since there is no one else to help them develop it, then they go on being traumatized.

They go on being traumatized, and it is difficult for them to fulfill the special gift they have to the point to which it drives them crazy because there is no one to orient them and nothing to have them fulfill the gift they might have.

H- What is your opinion of alcoholism and drug addiction?

M- Look, it's all well - like - well I don't know how to tell you - but if they were all to to reconsider how they should be there would be less perversity, less perversity in everything because the, well, alcoholism I cure here also.

H- Really?

M- Yes. But I do an observation of them or some questions

And, no, "How am I going to stop this if it is a inherited trait from my parents. It is inherited from my parents!"

No, sir! It's your own shamelessness, I tell them. There are so many drug addicts, well yes, addicted to everything - take and reflect on this, and take a moment to ask yourself about it and reflect on it.

Say, "Thus I am doing myself wrong with this." But if you don't start to reflect on it you say, "No, well, I do it, but so what?"

Then I tell them, I tell many people concerning this about drinking that they should spot little by little.

I knew a man in Tamaulipas that one drink - one drink! - that he was so much like that one drink and he was drunker than Cooter Brown. Then he was out of control.

They say there was this woman - she's not at the cantina anymore. This woman would do something to the beer.

H- Really?

M- She would open them and put something in them.

H- Uh, huh.

M- So that they would become inclined to return to this place and not to somewhere else - or, say, to another cantina - they were putting something nasty in the beer.

H- Uh, huh.

M- "They were giving me something [in the beer]."

H- What were they putting in there?

M- Well, I don't know what they were putting in there. A man told me it was a pill.

H- A pill?

M- A pill that assured that those people would only come to drink there

H- My gosh!

M- And so a man who had been going to another place and who said that, no, he would go wherever he wanted.

H- Uh, huh.

M- No, wherever, wherever I go to drink. Not in just any cantina. I don't insist on just one place. Well go on in there. But when h came out, he came out with not one cent. They took it all away from him.

They robbed him, sir. That is why that woman asked him to drink that pill. But when he left, he went to Chihuahua - who knows where. I didn't know him, but a lot of people told me about this.

H- I have heard that there are like certain cases of people who want to do damage to someone and the give them things - for example one thing that they use for this is what they call "tolohache". Have you heard of such cases?

M- Probably so. Probably so, but what I was telling you about they were giving the people so that they wouldn't go spend their money somewhere else.

I'll be right back. I'm going to the kitchen.

H- Okay.

M- Excuse me.

H- Yes.

There was this man here, Jesús Arzate, while my mother Justinita was alive.

"You, Martincito, I want to quit drinking."

That's good, I told him. Look, the spiritual brothers are going to pass curing to you invisible spiritual curing, and you will stop little by little.

"But if I just see a beer, right away I start drinking."

But you'll see, right away your life will change. If you yourself [must] apply yourself to quitting.

"Okay, I came here," he said. "I'll be back, old woman. I'm going to the bathroom and listen, old woman, old woman notice that there is a snake coming out of me!"

No, it was the tapeworm, the tapeworm more than a meter in length, which the woman herself was pulling so that it would come out, because he had a tapeworm in his stomach from so much drinking.

And thanks be to God! He said that he went seven years without drinking even one beer even though he had a lot of get-togethers with his sons.